Enter...Franzeca Drouin! My research assistant is a brilliant help. She answers questions as I’m writing (“Help! What kind of pen were they using again?), gets me appropriate primary source material (how do you think I learned so much about Georgian toilets and sewers before writing When the Duke Returns?) and, crucially, reads through each manuscript before it goes to copyediting, flagging the words that were not in use in the period.
As I write this blog, I’m finishing When Beauty Tamed the Beast, which will pub next February. One of my characters is a thoroughly impudent, lower class boy, who advises the hero that breasts are called “knockers.” Knockers, Franzeca retorts, were not in use, even when spelled “nockers.” Bummer. I wrack my brain but can’t come up with terms that a six-year-old might use. Where to turn? The website sex-lex.com. Type in breast and you’ll get a huge list of synonyms. wazzojugs, lulus, begonias… The crucial next step is running some options through the trusty Oxford English Dictionary (which will tell you exactly when a word appeared in the English language).But there’s another difficulty faced by historical authors. A Kiss at Midnight is my very own version of Cinderella. And my heroine Kate very sensibly realizes that she has no future with the prince, Gabriel, given her lack of dowry and his need for one—not to mention his fiancée. I doubt Cinderella ran home thinking that the prince would be trotting after her, holding a shoe. Kate decides to give Gabriel her most prized possession. But—Kate is a virgin, and virgins are hardly as knowledgeable as the sex-lex. Plus, those pesky historical restraints…
So I used the word kiss. It’s historically accurate, it’s remarkably flexible, it suits many an occasion. You can kiss at midnight, you can kiss outdoors in a garden, you can kiss in a bed in a turret. You can kiss in joy, or in heartbreaking goodbye.
Where I ended up—after writing Kiss at Midnight and When Beauty Tames the Beast—is realizing that when it comes to the most difficult scenes, less exotic language is better. So what did knockers turn into? Peaches. Suitable for a six-year-old, and evocative as well.
So what language do you find in historical sex scenes that you’d rather not see there? Or what do you see that you like? Here’s an odd example: shagging sounds like the 1960s to me, but it actually shows up in a 1788 dictionary, which means it was in use well before that.
Three commenters will be chosen, at random, to receive Eloisa James's fabulous ENCHANTING PLEASURES!
76 comments:
I hate it when romance writers use the phrase, "throbbing manhood." It makes me giggle because it is so silly and totally takes me out of the story.
I agree that the more vague or abstract terms work better for the flow of the story.
Member. I know it must be accurate and all, but it just leaves me feeling kind of icky. :)
I'm not sure I notice the exact wording of sex scenes very much; I think I prefer it when they're fairly straightforward and the words used aren't so archaic as to distract me. I'm not nearly knowledgeable enough to notice whether or not a word was actually used at that time.
I do absolutely loathe when "sex" is used as some catch-all term for genitalia. Ugh. (And from my two seconds of internet research, it doesn't seem to have been used that way until the 1900s anyways.)
Wow, Eloisa, I'm surprised about the term "shagging" originating that far back, as well. How fascinating.
Although it is (apparently) historically accurate, I don't like it when I find the "C" word in a book because it is so offensive to me.
Some terms do make me giggle because they are such funny euphemisms but for the life of me, I can't recall anything specific right now...I'm having a blank moment. :P
I agree with Siobhan. I'm also not fond of the term throbbing manhood. It sounds too cheesy. ;)
Siobhan, I so agree about "throbbing manhood"! In fact, can we just say "throbbing anything" should be out the window? Unless it's a very modern story and the "thing" has batteries...
The word "flesh" or any variation. I don't know why, but it sounds like a meal. I realize that sex can seem like a meal, but it sounds so zombie like.
Can't stand the word mons. I can't describe it, but it just makes me think ick :-/
Eloisa,
The words you had Tobias use in A Duke of Her Own cracked me up. He is one of my favorite kid characters in a book.
I thought it was pretty cool how in Lisa Kleypas' "Married by Morning" she gave the history of "le chat" for women; I found it interesting.
But I agree with Siobhan, "throbbing" anything is unnecessary, as are "heaving bosoms".
Completely agree with the term 'throbbing' being tossed and also 'heaving'.. doesn't appeal and they don't belong in an intimate scene.
Somehow it's much easier to picture or imagine when scenes are decently straightforward, yet when an author gets too wordy or drags it on for too many pages, I find myself scanning to find where it ends so I can continue with the story.
Eloisa,
Congratulations on your new book. As you have stated,less exotic language is better. The simplest words used can still describe a thousands different things.It also depends on the time period and the terminology that was used in that specific era. Every character has there own unique personality in which the author will portray them in the sex scenes of the book..You have done excellent in regards to this. Once again,congratulations.
Ms. Raynell Castillo
Thank you for your post, Eloisa.
I'm perfectly happy if a romance writer skips sex scenes. I already know what's going on. There are only so many acts that can take place, and only so many ways to describe them.
But I realize most readers and all editors demand graphic, detailed sex scenes. Therefore, I think such passages are more interesting if the author employs plenty of figurative language--such as metaphors, similes, symbols, personification, and allegory. The more poetic, the better.
Flowery, over-the-top language is fine by me. Even if the action is something I've read before, the description can still compel my attention.
This applies to sex scenes in any setting, in any type of romance. Well, almost. If the author employs gritty, kitchen-sink realism throughout the novel, suddenly switching to purple prose would probably make the readers gag.
I appreciate your attempts to maintain authenticity in your historical romances, down to the most intimate details. But I for one am pretty unlikely to catch any linguistic anachronisms in sex scenes. I haven't exactly researched this department in depth.
Hope this helps. Keep up the good work!
Ms. Raynell Castillo, thank you for those kind words about my books!
And Mary Anne, you make a great point. 99.9% of readers would never notice. But--believe me on this--the 1% who know the historical provenance of a word that I got wrong would all fire up their laptops to a) write me a letter, b) inform the world via Amazon that I'm obviously not really a professor.
sigh.
I agree, toss out throbbing manhood, member, and heaving breasts. They sound cheesy.
hurray! Everyone else hates throbbing manhood! TO be honest the phrase always disturbed me a little; if the thing is throbbing, ladies, it ain't natural, and I'd rather he didn't bring it anywhere near me, thankyouverymuch.
Having said that, the historically accurate term "nubbin", particularly when following the word "love", just cracks me up every time.
Manroot makes me LOL. "throbbing manhood" is another one. I'd rather a love scene be straightforward and not flowery.
I hate overly anatomically correct descriptions...it makes me feel like I am at a visit to the doctor, rather than reading romance! By the way...I tried sex-lex.com and got a dutch porn site- but what you described seems MUCH more interesting.
Oh! And "root of his manly being" is the absolute worst I have ever read!
I loved how you used cony in Kiss Me Annabel. And, okay it's official: sex-lexis.com is the best website ever! I think the c-word is so utterly fascinating: it's such an old word, so despised...I love that sex-lexis says it has been "taboo for 600 years"...I mean who can stay mad for that long? "The Oxford English Dictionary cites its first use in 1230 when the word appeared in the name of a London lane, Gropecuntelane..." I mean...you couldn't make that up. (Well, maybe if you were Eloisa James you could, but still). And agreed, throbbing usually means you need an antibiotic. Thanks for the great topic.
I'm not a fan of staff, rod, or any other weapon name. ;)
Since I sometimes write what some consider to be "smut" I find that terms do not bother me if they are used in context and sound appropriate. I do love that a "kiss" is a wonderful word to use. It fits the need and is not "loaded" as some words tend to be.
Nice blog post, Ms. James.
Cheers,
Ardee-ann
I think the best scenes are the ones that I'm not thinking a description sounds funny or odd. If I am noticing a word that looks out of place then I have been pulled out of the story and that is annoying.
Goodness, look at all the comments! Everyone beat me here this morning!!!
Sex terms. They are so much fun. And I hate when I come across a word/term I want to use only to realise it doesn't work for the time period. I actually have and often refer to Cassell's dictionary of slang when using naughty terms ;) And I don't shy away from using some of the harsh ones that make me giggle, but would be time period appropriate for my characters to use.
Congrats on the new book, it sounds marvelous, Eloisa.
I just like when they use the exact words that i know..i mean i read about 'shagging' before but not on a romance books :)
I would be so very happy if i win this coz Eloisa is a new for me author !
Welcome to the Dark Walk again, Eloisa! We're so happy you are here! And hello to our guests...we probably will have lots of traffic with "sex words" in the title, LOL.
I had a great deal of trouble writing sex scenes until my agent kept writing "more" on my manuscripts.;) Two Christmases ago she sent me The Big Book of Filth, which has unbelievable word lists for everything, with dates when they were in common usuage. I tend to go with the simple, though, and probably overuse "cock."
I don't like sex scenes when they sound too medical or textbook-y (penis is just not a sexy word), and usually try to concentrate on the characters' emotions rather than their various body parts. It is a challenge, but one I'm happy to have!
I agree with everyone else that "throbbing", "heaving", etc. can be left by the wayside, please! Some authors seem to run out of ideas, which is probably how we get pulsating nipples (really?!) and so on.
I've read so many romances (and double or triple the amount of love/sex scenes, of course) that I feel a bit burned out. I want to see the emotional connection between the characters more than the physical, so love scenes that go on for more than a couple of pages have me skimming to the end.
Having said that, though, some authors are so good at describing just a simple kiss. I much prefer that to the throbbing, thrusting, etc.!
I'm jumping on the (no pun intended!) "throbbing" "heaving" "engorged" bus...ewww...it takes away from the lovely writing being done and the great story that's being told.
Oh I'm with everyone on a man's throbbing anything. And "manroot" other Rachel B? oh man, I don't know where you found that, but I'm cracking up now.
I'm fully against the use of manhood--I just read that in a book and I had to stop and say, "Oh come on!" Also, the (of course completely accurate) word vagina. That sounds more clinical to me than the equivalent for men.
I did see something recently though that I really liked for women, "slick passion." I thought that was so evocative, but it didn't use wetness, or juices, or anything like that. Description of a woman's body response always seems the most awkward.
Eloisa! Welcome! I planned to be commenting bright and early, but I think I should have set the alarm to wake me up much earlier if I wanted to beat the crowd. It's awesomee!
I think it's important when the physical description becomes part and parcel with the emotional responses, and then it's about more than just the super-huge-throbbing-part being inserted into the equally-throbbing-grippy-part and lots of heavy breathing and a bit of moaning and groaning.
At the same time, you can't get around using certain words, even though sometimes it makes me laugh.
Thank you so much for visiting, I can't wait for the book!
I don't like it when I see the word f*&k in a historical. I know it may be historically accurate, but I find it jarring.
Siobhan: I giggle at some of the "private" descriptions. The one that had me in fits of giggles was the turn of phrase, "Humid Hearth" for a woman...
I literally had to stop reading and go get a tissue to dry my tears of hilarity.
Mary Anne: lol - actually I tend to note the page the first "heat" takes place - to me, the longer the the author waits, the better.
I remember a book in which the first steamy kiss was on PAGE THREE. (mind you the characters hadn't even properly met yet) And I was like, hmm.... I think too much of it makes for skipped pages.
PS: Eloisa, I never skip pages in your books ;).
I roll my eyes every time I see "button" used when referring to the clitoris. The word just sounds too cute and contained for what's going on. And I agree with everyone about "throbbing manhood." Come to think of it, if the actions and feelings are described well, the parts probably don't need to be named so much and something like "he slid into her"--with lots of adverbs--would probably suffice.
When the chemistry between the characters is there and I am wrapped up in the story I don't need a lot of description for a sex scene at all...sometimes less is better!
I enjoyed this post and you sharing how accurate the wording has to be! The reader comments have me cracking up, of course, while I blush. LOL!
I'm not a big stickler for absolute accuracy in my historical roms. As long as it's not a total anachronism, I'm fine. I like the use of "peaches"...that's perfect!
I'd never seen the term 'tupping' used until I read Elizabeth Hoyt's work. I love her writing and think she does a fine job balancing the sexual tension, while maintaining the integrity of the historical timeframe.
I have to admit I skip the sex scenes, especially when odd or funky words are used. I so agree with the ladies above on the inappropriateness of 'throbbing' and 'heaving' used in sex scenes. I think of heaving as in sickness (think tummy). That said, I do enjoy a sex scene when tenderness and/or humor are used. I know. I'm odd.
I agree with Sara; I'm not a fan of the "c" words. Especially the female "c" words. I don't mind cock but the girl ones? Something makes me squeamish about them. And I don't like the historically accurate cunny much either.
The word throbbing should be reserved for headaches. And heaving should be reserved for lifting.
I guess I'm the only one that likes 'throbbing manhood' haha but seriously, think about it. When you are in the throws of passion, you throb, you pant, you grab. Medieval terms appear to be especially earthy. Penis and vagina seem to clinical and modern. I try not to be too harsh on the authors. It's not so easy to put sex and love on a flat piece of paper!
I prefer more basic writing than the more flowery. I also do not like throbbing or member in sex scenes.
The sword and sheath metaphor, has me laughing hysterically when I see it. I read a book when two older women were describing the act using sword and sheath, I laughed so hard I was close to tears. Who wouldn't be terrified to have a sharp sword coming towards them? Save sword and sheath for the battle scenes please.
It’s fascinating that shagging goes back that far! It makes sense though, and I have to say I kind of like it. It’s evocative somehow :-)
I personally prefer sex scenes where the connection between the characters has been well built up before hand, and the emotions are running wild, and it sounds like I’m not the only one who feels that way. Must be why I love Elosia James so much :-)
I just finsihed a book wherein the author apparently could not think of a single synonym for "vagina." And the heroine's vagina was an especially active one - forever throbbing, clenching, gripping, weeping, seeping, welcoming, having sparks of sensation shooting through it, etc. It made me wonder how the poor girl got through a day, what with all the shenanigans going on in her knickers! I dunno, if it were me, I'd be kind of distracted.
It's so fascinating the way every reader has different expectations for a sex scene -- lots of adverts, flowery language, basic language, skip them all together... I always try to tell new authors distressed by a negative letter that readers are all looking for different things. This chain of comments is a perfect example!
All I can say is that I want your RA's job. That sounds like fun.
I've often heard Donne scholars refer to the use of "sex" in The Ecstasy as the first use of the term in (something like) the modern sense:
This ecstasy doth unperplex,
We said, and tell us what we love;
We see by this it was not sex,
We see we saw not what did move.
He clearly means something more than "gender"--at the very least, something like "the attraction between differently-gendered bodies."
Ah, well, Donne was often ahead of his time.
I just finished re(rere)reading "Kiss Me, Anabel" and I loved how naturally the intimate scenes flowed with the other scenes. I think language in sex scenes should follow the same rules as using the word "said." It shouldn't be noticeable that you're using any specific tricks to differentiate in terms. For me, that's the difference between a good romance novel and a trashy one.
Too much detail turns me off. A good sex scene need romance, humor, and a bit left to the imagination.
I'm going to have to jump on the heaving bosums & throbbing manhood bandwagon as well. But honestly, I'll take those is someone would just delete the words Rod & Staff from all sex scenes. Honestly? Are they about to have sex or fight a duel? It just sounds silly.. I tend to skim sex scenes if I run across those words..
I love your books Eloisa, and have yet to find a reason to have to skim a scene.
Anything that mentions "swelling," particularly breasts. I understand it's meant to indicate arousal, but all I can see in my mind's eye is Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade. Suddenly the characters start ballooning out in odd ways, I start laughing...so much for that scene...
I'm in the same boat with the throbbing, heaving, etc. and I'd like to add "rising up proudly" to the avoidance list when describing a woman’s excited nipples. Yes, they do rise, but "proudly"?
My sincere thanks to all romance authors who make the concentrated effort to keep the romantic aspect present in the sex scenes. Eloisa, you are a master at this....
I never understood why my husband would chuckle when I mentioned an unpleasant co-worker named "Roger". He finally made some comment about not being able to take a man named Roger seriously, and I had to ask why. Now I find the rare use of the word "roger" as a verb to be totally charming... though I suppose it wouldn't do for an actual love scene.
I've never seen this in use in a romance novel (thank God) but the word "quim" makes me go ICK. Though now that I google it at the website, I see it was historically in use in 1811--but not, I believe during the period of Rob Roy (movie/Liam Neeson), where I first heard the word and went, "Ugh!"
And I don't like the medically technical words either. I.e. I don't find "penis" to be a particularly sexy word. Or vagina for that matter. Though using the word "vajayjay" in historical romance is out of the question. Or in contemporaries for that matter.
Oh, and it's not sex-lex.com like you have in the blog. It's sex-lexis.com.
Sex-lex.com goes to another site altogether and if you're at work, that would not be advisable.
I have to say that I agree with Thea: "Throbbing" is great, because when the sex is good; I mean, really good; then parts ARE throbbing. If there's no throbbing going on I think something's missing. I'm also a fan of the "C" words; cock & cunt are gritty and remind me of very heated, slick, sweaty sex where the mattress is half falling off of the bed and you have no thoughts; just feeling and passion. However; I do cringe when I see manhood, member, sex organ, button, and probably a few others that (thankfully) are not coming to mind.
Eloisa, congratulations on the new release; and thank you for the contest, and a chance to win one of your wonderful Historical Romance books.
Hi, Eloisa!!! Thanks so much for guest blogging with us today! It's always great to hve you revisit the Dark Walk. :)
This was such a fantastic blog, and I admit there are certain words that pull me out of the sex scenes, especially if the hero has a weird name for his penis.
I love the word "shag." I know Sherry Thomas has used it quite well in her books.
Thanks again for visiting! I can't believe A Kiss at Midnight releases so soon. And When Beauty Tames the Beast sounds fabulous (the B&B trope is a fave of mine).
I have to admit i hate it when romance writers refer to male anatomy in modern methods. The words "dick, cock, ect.." really throw me off. I much rather prefer abstract terms when it comes to male anatomy.
Melissa
jedisakora@msn.com
I would love your research assistant's job! Floral synonyms put me off, but I imagine it's difficult to balance historical accuracy with our modern expectations. No one in your story may bat an eye at wazzojugs, but you can bet readers will!
I really appreciate your attention to historical accuracy though. More than superfluous synonyms, the odd modern reference or accidental quote from an 80s movie really throws me off in a historical.
I really dislike it when the hero says...mine.
I really dislike it when the hero says...mine.
I love your books Eloisa, and appreciate the pains you take to be historically accurate and still tell a fantastic story.
For myself, I really don't think about how historically accurate language is, since I'm no expert. If it was an obviously modern word that would throw me off, but otherwise, the only thing that bothers me are strange, overly flowery descriptions for sex or body parts, such as "throbbing or heaving" that have been mentioned, and overly crude words unless the story really calls for them.
Congrats on your new release! I am still laughing about everyone talking about the throbbing manhood. I always amazes me as to how large they are in books. They are always hudge, it makes me laugh. Your books sound fabulous, please enter me.
lead[at]hotsheet[dot]com
Elisa, I love that detail about the Donne poem, and I see exactly what the scholars mean. It would not surprise me to find him far ahead of the pack.
Thank you for all these kind words about my books!
If any of you haven't signed up on my FAcebook fan page, please do -- we're getting close to August 3rd, when my publisher is going to give a free Nook to one of my fans! www.facebook.com/eloisajames.fans
It's bedtime in Italy, but I'll check in tomorrow am, so please leave any questions you have...
Eloisa
I am a proud reader of Historical Romance!!
My pet peeve is not bad euphemisms in worse sex scenes. It is the use of the term "Bodice Ripper" when it is applied to good Historic Romance. It is a pejorative and outdated term for a wonderful genre that denigrates wonderfully literate, creative and articulate writers.
The choice of sex words and/or their historical accuracy is not a big problem for me. I do dislike when some authors recycle the same version of scenes from one book to the next. I know it must be hard to keep things fresh, but a good writer will always find a way. That being said: Eloisa you are a master of freshness and humor as well as accuracy, and I thank you for it!
I really apprecaite all the sex scenes in romance novels and any words that are used during them - even though some are funnier then others. It's wonderful to feel the tension building as the book progresses and then the relief when the characters finally come together (NO PUN INTENDED)and release (DITTO) all that tension. I especially like when characters talk during these scenes. Not, "did you remember to call the plunber?" But more intimate things about what they're doing and how it feels. :)
The words "nub" and "nubbin" for clitoris drive me crazy. It sounds childlike (or like sweet corn). "Button" is not much better.
I read a book recently that repeatedly referred to the hero's "cods." Historically accurate or not, it threw me out of the scene every time -- I do not want fish, of any kind, associated with sex scenes.
Very detailed descriptions of genitalia are very difficult to make sexy, to my mind. Nothing you can compare them to is as sexy as the original. Even cucumbers.
You're too right, Eloisa, that you can't please all readers. I'm happy if an author finds a style that works for her and sticks with it.
I particulary hate the word "staff". It makes me want to look behind the hero to see who else if there. Did he bring his secretary and butler with him?
i like a good sex scene as much as the next girl, but i really enjoy the witty flirting before and during that some characters have. banter is hard to write well i would imagine but it really adds to a character.
some euphemisms are rather ridiculous but there are only so many ways to talk about sex so i can understand why some of the sillier phrases get thrown in to mix things up (i.e. throbbing manhood)
SonomaLass is so right. Nub, nubbin, and button are HORRIBLE words. They jerk me out of the scene every time. (And it also makes me think of corn, which is apt since the words are so damned corny.)
It could be worse... :)
Some of the euphemisms for anatomical parts in sex scene do make me roll my eyes. What really crack me up are the words for pubic hair that I remember reading somewhere: "woman's fleece" and "nether curls". I laughed for days.
I also came across an adjective for the heroine's vaginal discharge as "piquant" or "pungent", to which I thought, "ew!"
ironss[at]gmail.com
I can pretty much handle anything that doesn't make me read it twice. However, I don't like the use of the word sword during sex. It makes me think of destruction rather than completion, which is what I want even in non-love sex scenes.
Oh, and I love the OED online.
LMAO! Love this post!!
I actually enjoy a lot of the sex-lingo used in romances. I find it entertaining and seriously funny.
What I dislike is the misplaced animal sounds. the gurgling and involuntary seizures and grunting (okay, well I like the grunting). I also hate the blasphemy. "OH CHRIST...OH GOD IN HEAVEN... " (I am LMAO literally while writing this).. I like the commentary from the characters to be genuine and not to be a mouthful and just be...lol I am sorry, I am still laughing about that blasphemy that I can't finish this thought.... But I like the straight forward dirty talk I guess, but some historicals take it to far (making it comical instead of sensual)
To Debbie L, "Staff" I'll never read it the same way again! The Butler DID it!
Language inappropriate for the period would not phase me, as long as it's not blatantly modern. What does annoy me is the repetition of certain expressions. Most importantly, a good sex scene draws me into it, and I become the heroine. Sometimes the hint of sex is as sexy as the act. Anyone for....., to quote Mama Mia?
Great. After reading all these comments, I realize there literally isn't a word I can use without somebody going 'ew.' It's hard enough(if you'll pardon the expression) to come up with something original after 35 books. And then historical sticklers and corn haters. I think I'm going to go back to my WIP and do what I've been threatening to for years. Leave four bland pages and one line. "He f*&^ed her brains out."
Now, now, Eileen -- we mustn't give up hope! Not when I (for one) have to write a big sex scene in the next two days before leaving for the RWA...
thank you everyone for all these comments! It was really fascinating reading people's likes and dislikes. Thank goodness, ever used "button" as far as I can remember.
hugs, Eloisa
I don't love the use of "dew" (as in "He rejoiced in discovering her woman's dew, the proof of her desire") or "nether" (as in...well, I'm sure you get it). The first strikes me as a bit prudish and the second as overly clinical.
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